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Robin Parry scribbles the odd thought on various theological issues and books.
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Edward Feser on whether Christians and Muslims worship the same God.
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Robin Parry scribbles the odd thought on various theological issues and books.
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Oh the shame that sent me off
from the God that I once loved ...
Good music too. Thanks!
http://timshel.org/timshel.php
That said, aside from that one song, I love the album.
I am a Christian, and I don't feel there is anything "unChristian" about using the F-word. Just like I don't feel there is anything wrong with having sex or drinking... each is appropriate in the correct context.
TIMSHAL
with an "a".
I wonder if this timshel is a Yiddish pronunciation ???
Yes there is the F-bomb in the one song and it is a bit jarring in the midst of such a beautiful song.
Then again isn't faith jarring to some people?
I have found that both Christians and non alike really like and love this band.
Frankly I think their songs really make you think about things and the way we're living our lives.
If their songs can bring people out of a narrow view then isn't that something not only amazing but wonderful as well?
Most would judge me on some things but I see myself as a David type where I screw up by I really do have a heart after God.
I think they're an amazing band and I think that good things can come out of their music.
There are some amazingly Biblical standing tones over and under depending on how much you really pay attention or know.
While I admire the fact that you do not wish to be defined by a "category," I do hope you understand that even that decision is a category itself. To not choose something, or to consciously decide to not choose something, is in itself an actual decision- in this case a decision you choose to make about your relationship with God.
"But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities; The chastisement for our peace was upon Him, And by His stripes we are healed.-Isa 53:5"
Christ was given to the world as an opportunity for you and I to have a personal relationship with our Perfect, Holy, Everlasting Father. The world has falsely defined Christianity as religion, rather than relationship. And as it says it Mumford and Sons Awake My Soul, "You were made to meet your maker."
The lyrics for Sigh No More he describes as "a deliberately spiritual thing but deliberately not a religious thing. I think faith is something beautiful, and something real, and something universal, or it can be." He gestures around the table at his bandmates. "We all have our separate views on religion, but I think faith is something to be celebrated. I have my own personal views, they're still real to me, and I want to write about them."
There are some amazingly Biblical standing tones over and under depending on how much you really pay attention or know.
1. They've never "denied" their faith, yes, they may sing about trials and tribulations and walking away from God at times, and God forbid we ever discuss the hard times we have as Christians, right? (That was to the person who talked about demons and what not)
2. How can you deny it? They have a song called "Roll Away Your Stone". Their lyrics talk about the heart longing for love the way it was meant to be, and finding out how to live the way they were meant to.
Overall, the band does a good job at choosing words and phrases that, when combined with the sound and style of music, stir up emotion. It's the sum of the parts that achieves that emotion, and I think the group's fans, Christian and non-Christian, resonate with that.
That is unless it is in the song "Little Lion Man".
RE: Little Lion Man - I know it's evangelical taboo, but rather like the use of the F-bomb here. It aptly communicates the writer's regret over what he has done to damage his relationship. I suppose the age of the hearer has a lot to do with how offensive it is as well.
As a person who is trying to strengthen my own Christian faith in my walk with God, this music speaks volumes to me. I find it challenging, forgiving, flawed, questioning, hopeful, - the entire gamut of the human experience in our quest to walk with God. Not to mention some pretty good music to boot.
1st off how can you possibly say that simply because they do not play praise and worship music that means that they have obviously turned and walked away from God? Have you ever been in a failed relationship? Unless you're 16 probably so. Now let's imagine you're an artist. God gave you the ability to paint beautiful paintings, So out of your sadness you paint some sort of painting with meaning to you about your realtionship with this boy/girl and how you are now sad. Now, simply because your painting is about that girl and not about Jesus in some way does that make you a non-christian who has obviously turned away from God? Seriously, works of music are works of art just like paintings and the very earth around us. God created us and this earth and music and painting and every other beautiful creative thing that speaks to our suol. That's why music or nature speaksto our souls so much because it was created by God just like we were. And not only did God create us he also GAVE us Logic and Creativity he put us in the situations we're in. So to say to use that creativity we were given to do anything other than to make something directly as praise and worship to God is rebllion against God would be the same as saying using our logic to blance our check book and not think about God is rebellion also. God knows that we go through things like relationships and many other things and to use our creativity that he gave us to speak about those things is not a sin. Now if we use those gifts against him that's something completely different than just using it to express ourselves. You just can't write a praise and worship song about some of the every day things that we go through and that people go through and still make it about the cross somehow.
2nd this is the sort of thinking that so many christians fall into nowadays or rather they are pulled into it. there is a large difference between spirituality and religion and somewhere in the middle is God Saying why have you come so close to me only to be so far away. This is the old minded human created religion type thinking that has turned so many away from the church already and is continuing to do so. So if you will consider your mission to be a light to the world and I beg you read the word for yourself with nothing but you and God. No preacher-man can cleanse your hands or give you the mind of Christ.
Lastly, If out of all of this I am wrong and you are right then I'll suppose I'll be burning in hell right along side you as you listen to just as much sinful music as I. Thanks
I used to feel that way - just wanted to invite you to give yourself some room to listen to music that you like, and love Jesus - together. This is especially nice if the music you're listening to isn't made by Christians. It might confuse people, and sometimes that's good. Satan only "owns" stuff that we let him own, take it back and listen to that music with your new Christian ears!
but their hearts are far from me.
They worship me in vain;
their teachings are merely human rules.'"
Also, to whoever said sex and drinking is fine - you are just interpreting the Bible in a way so that you may live a wordly life still claiming you are Christian - I can say that like all teenagers it is hard to resist Wordly things - but that is the point; it it meant to be, it is a test to see how strong our respect is for God and how obedient we are!
I love Mumford+Sons and was happy to hear their Christian lyrics in such popular songs
by the way Marcus' parents started the Vineyard Church in the U.K. and Ireland
Like @Branjawn said drinking and sex are both appropriate... in the right context. I think the way sex is being portrayed now is harmful- the idea that sex is bad all the time when in reality, God WANTS us to have sex with our spouse, and it's GOOD, so that's why it's worth it to wait.
I love Mumford's music. I think it's pleasing to God, not Satanic or whatever else it is being called. I think when people use their talents and God-give abilities, it glorifies God, no?
Or should we make a Christian bubble in which only Christian things are approved? Christian grocery store, Christian plumbers, Christian clothes, Christian bank, Christian dog groomer, ect. Why do that with music
However, it's not really because I don't like the message because hey-- It's what you believe. I'm pretty ambivilant to it. I just don't listen.
I don't like music that thrusts it's message in your face. For example while I enjoy disney musicals, I didn't enjoy Princess in the Frog because that's all it did. It didn't help that the songs were forgettable to begin with, and that's how I feel about christian music because I don't consider the stuff I hear particularly any different from any of the other bland content less music which are not religious based.
However, I do like Mumford and sons. I think the music stands by itself, and I don't need to view it as strictly christian if I don't want to.
For example
"How fickle my heart and how woozy my eyes
I struggle to find any truth in your lies
...
Lend me your eyes I can change what you see
But your soul you must keep, totally free"
"But you, you've gone too far this time
You have neither reason nor rhyme
With which to take this soul that is so rightfully mine"
"Cause you told me that I would find a hole
Within the fragile substance of my soul
And I have filled this void with things unreal
And all the while my character it steals"
Perhaps I am just projecting my own point of view on it though.
"I am a Christian, and I don't feel there is anything 'unChristian' about using the F-word. Just like I don't feel there is anything wrong with having sex or drinking... each is appropriate in the correct context."
I'm interested in understanding what context there to use profanity. You can have sex in marriage, and drink as long as you do not get drunk. Cursing is a sin as Paul tells us in his letter to the Colosians. (Chap 3) If you belive the Bible entirely, than there is no room for cursing.
As a friend of the band I can confirm that none are religious though come from religious families. Marcus' dad is a vicar but all rejected faith in favour of reason.
Hope this helps.
Perhaps an appropriate context for profanity would be to show how man continues to fail and we are in need of a redeemer.
I would consider it a sin to use the F-bomb in any context. However, just because one sins does not make one non-Christian. In fact, all sinners are Christians.
So, I think the point might be, while the F-bomb might BE appropriate within a certain context in the terms of human understanding, it's also not the type of word one would use when trying to be perfect. After all, trying to be without sin is trying to be perfect. We will never be perfect, so let's not bother pointing out each other's sins.
Could they have made their point without using the F-bomb several times in the song? Absolutely. Does their use of the F-bomb draw a positive result from some people who enjoy having it there? Perhaps. Would they have been less sinful to use a cleaner word? Sure. Should we obsess about it? No.
We are all brothers and sisters, none of us are perfect, and we all are sinners. This is what Christianity is all about. Through our faith in Jesus Christ, our sins are washed away.
Stephen