Thomas Talbott audiobook coming soon!
A fantastic new audiobook version of the second edition of Thomas Talbott's The Inescapable Love of God (Eugene, OR: Cascade, 2014) will be available to buy very soon from all the usual outlets of spoken-word books (and distributed by christianaudio.com).
It is fabulously narrated by the actor George Sarris, a veteran of audiobooks.
The retail price will be $19.98.
I have heard the whole thing and can highly recommend it.
Watch this space!
Comments
Back in the mid-80s I learned that my friend George Sarris had some crazy notion that everybody would be saved. I thought, "Well, obviously that's wrong," and I dismissed the idea.
I didn't really think about it again for more than 20 years. By then George and his family had moved away, but we stayed in touch and occasionally saw each other. At the wedding of the son of some mutual friends, I asked George about it out of curiosity, and he offered to send me a paper he had written for a seminary class. Reading that paper did not convince me that God is going to redeem everyone, but it did give me permission to explore the idea without fear that I would be at risk of falling into heresy.
As I began to consider that maybe, just maybe, Jesus actually would save the world, my heart felt "a thrill of hope." I started reading everything I could find on the subject, including going back and reading the Bible with new eyes, and little by little I became thoroughly convinced that Jesus is indeed the Savior of the world and will accomplish the salvation of the world.
One book that was instrumental in this journey was The Inescapable Love of God, by Tom Talbott Sr. From it I learned that God's love is more powerful than all sin, more than able to overcome all our resistance and rebellion and draw every single human being to bow the knee and acknowledge Jesus Christ as Lord. I was also pleased to find out that my aversion to the idea of eternal damnation is not from a rebellious heart or a rejection of the Bible, but is actually the witness of my God-given conscience and of the Holy Spirit.
I am absolutely delighted that two key mentors in my life--one a personal friend and one a friend through his writing--have teamed up to produce a resource that will get the word out about this wonderful good news and be a blessing to many. If you are already leaning toward universal redemption, this book will solidify your convictions. If you are skeptical or have never considered it or are dead-set against it, please read or listen with an open mind and open heart!
We owe Robin, George, Thomas and many others a debt of gratitude for helping to open our eyes to the good news of the gospel. I listened to George's audio version of Hope Beyond Hell many times during some dark days. His voice (and writings) were like medicine to a wounded soul. Like you, the thrill of hope led to much reading and a confirmation that Jesus is indeed the savior of the world.
I'm looking forward to adding this audiobook to the list of resources I can recommend to others who get a glimpse of the thrilling hope.
God has revealed in His Word that salvation must take place while you are here on the earth. Once you die it is all over with.
Die in your sins and you will perish. You will suffer conscious torment day and night forever.
Die in Jesus and you will go to Heaven, and will be bless for all eternity.
UR is heresy. It is the work of the flesh. Believers who walk in the flesh are under condemnation and if they don't repent they will perish when they die.
Scripture teaches that if you die in your sins you will perish [John 3:16, Luke 16:22, 23, 30].
Scripture teaches that if you die in Jesus you will go to Heaven. [John 3:16, Rom 6:23, Luke 16:22]
Scripture teaches that God does not remember the damned in eternity nor does He work with them [Ps 88:5].
Heresy is a doctrine that goes contrary to what Scripture teaches.
Heresy is the work of the flesh. [Gal 5:19-21]
A believer who walks in the flesh is under condemnation and is spiritually dead [Rom 8:1, 13].
God will bring judgment on him/her for repentance. [1 Cor 11:31-32].
If (s)he refuses to repent before (s)he dies (s)he will perish because (s)he died in his/her sins.
God has spoken in His Word that those who die in their sins will go to hell and will suffer conscious torment forever [Rev 20:10,15.]
UR is heresy because it goes against what God has spoken in His Word, both OT and NT.
Heresy is a result of sin and is the work of the flesh.
If you don't repent you will perish.
I am grateful that you take Scripture seriously and that you care enough to warn us of the dangers of our ways, as you perceive them.
But before you rush to assign all universalists to eternal damnation, you may wish to ponder whether you have interpret the Bible correctly. Those you are opposing here are folk who affirm the authority of God and of Scripture just as much as you yourself do. They have considered all the texts and arguments that you mention and have come to the conclusion that universalism makes better sense of the Bible. Now, of course, we may be wrong. But before you hustle us all into hell you may find it of value to read our biblical arguments and weigh them up. After all, if you take the Bible seriously you will want to evaluate the views of those who claim to expound the teaching of Scripture. If, on considering those arguments, you conclude that we are wrong then fair enough. At least you will know why we are mistaken.
You are welcome to start with "The Evangelical Universalist."
Come back and let me know your thoughts once you have read it.
in Christ
Robin
I know the arguments for UR. I have spent much time (~5 yrs or more) debating UR folks. Their arguments show a lack of understanding of the Word of God, and is based on their flesh.
I have been to the Evangelical Universalist website and have debated those folks in the past.
Is that you, star2? Your words have a familiar ring!
I know you have debated me extensively, but try Robin Parry (The Evangelical Universalist) or Thomas Talbott (The Inescapable Love of God). Read their books with an open heart and give thoughtful responses to the points they raise. Those guys know a lot more than I do and you won't get by with simplistic answers!
Yes, I am star2.
The Word of God establishes what truth is for me.
God has said in His Word that the damned in eternity will be forever separated from Him. They will suffer conscious torment day and night forever. This is an eternal truth.
UR cannot be supported by scripture. It is a lie.
You want me to abandon the truth and open my heart to a lie? No thank you.
I have debated Diane Castro and George Sarris extensively for a number of years. Here are two articles that give a summary of my many arguments against UR:
I post at the Christian Post as star2.
Diane's blog is 'Ambassador of Reconciliation'.
Burning in Fire
http://blogs.christianpost.com/ambassador-of-reconciliation/burning-in-fire-24545/
George Sarris's blog is 'Engaging the Culture'.
Is God Creation's Biggest Loser?
http://blogs.christianpost.com/engaging-the-culture/is-god-creations-biggest-loser-25202/
This is "Tam the Typer" here too -- so you already have a lot of friends here at Robin's blog!
Like the others, I also plead with you to explore, more, the wideness in God's mercy -- and consider whether the good news isn't better than we've been led to believe.
God's blessing to you, and us all.
Tam.
What do you think God's Word says about the fate of the damned in eternity?
star2
1 Cor 1:18 says that “the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing (present continuous), but to us who are being saved (present continuous), it is the power of God.”
The ongoing process of “perishing” and “being saved” goes on into the age to come. For the unrepentant, it carries on through the judgment and punishment. So, yes, hell is real. And it goes on until God’s loving mercy in Christ has drawn all men to himself, as Jesus said -- and every tongue confesses that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father, as Paul said.
The modern translations of the Bible are slowly recognizing the fact that the Greek present tense is best translated by our “present continuous” -- eg “being saved” rather than “are saved”. In other words, what is being described is an on-going process, not a final result.
Once you become aware of this “present tense continuous”, you start to see it again and again: eg
II Cor 5:19 God in Christ reconciling the world to himself,
Mat 7:13-14 many who are entering/few who are finding,
Jhn 3:36 “Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.” Here, the present tense “remains” is not clear enough. Better is the present continuous “is remaining” which again points to “ongoing process”. In other words, the text is saying that as long as a person is unsaved, the wrath of God is remaining on them, but when they become saved, they find that they have eternal life”
So it’s mid-way in the ongoing process, not God’s final settlement.
Also worth mentioning is Rev 21:5. God himself says: “Behold I am making all things new”. He actually says this after the wicked have been sent to the Lake of Fire. And then at Rev 21: 24ff we see people from the Lake of Fire coming in through the ever-open gates of the New Jerusalem -- the formerly wicked Kings of the earth and their nations (eg Rev 18:3) have repented, and are now saved. As Rev 22:14 says, they have washed their robes, eaten the leaves for the healing of the nations (Rev 22:2) and entered the city.
Both in this age, and in the age to come, the spirit and the Bride are saying “Come”. And let him who is thirsty come, let him who desires take the water of life without price” (Rev 22:17). Behold, God is indeed making (present continuous) all things new!
"The ongoing process of “perishing” and “being saved” goes on into the age to come.
For the unrepentant, it carries on through the judgment and punishment. So, yes, hell is real. And it goes on until God’s loving mercy in Christ has drawn all men to himself, as Jesus said -- and every tongue confesses that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father, as Paul said."
Thanks for responding with your point of view but it cannot be supported by scripture.
God inspired King David to pen that He will not remember the unrepentant sinner who is in the grave nor will He work with them (Ps 88:5).
God prophesied through the Prophet Isaiah that when He creates a New Heaven and a New Earth the old heaven and earth will He remember no more nor will it come into His mind (Isaiah 65:17).
The New Heaven and New Earth is not created until after the Great White Throne Judgment (GWTJ). At the GWTJ all unrepentant sinners will stand before God, their works judged, and if their names are not written in the Lamb's book of Life they will be cast into the Lake of Fire to be tormented forever (Rev 20:11-15, 10).
All unrepentant sinners who appear before the GWTJ are a part of the old heaven and earth. When it passes away with all that was a part of it which includes all unrepentant sinners since the beginning of time until that GWTJ day, you tell me how the damned will be save?
If God says He will remember them no more and will not work with them, and whatever was a part of the old heaven and earth has passed away, you tell me how they will be saved and passed from death unto life (go from hell to heaven)?
A person can't get saved if God doesn't deal with them and draw them to Jesus giving them an opportunity to make a decision for Him. God says in Ps 88:5 that He does not deal with them. He will not work with them. So even if they want to be saved they are never given a chance to do so.
All scripture, both OT and NT, dealing with the fate of the damned in eternity are consistent with one another. That is, die in your sins and you will be separated from God suffering conscious torment day and night forever.
Luke 16:26 is clear that salvation must take place while here on the earth; it cannot take place once you enter into eternity. Where ever you end up that is where you will stay.
UR is not consistent with the OT and NT scriptures dealing with the fate of the damned in eternity. ECT is.
star2
In heaven, I trust that we’ll be singing from the same hymn sheet -- but in the meantime we are seeing (present continuous) through a glass darkly.
What do you make of the many passages that talk of the annihilation of the wicked -- eg Psalm 92:7 where the wicked are “destroyed forever”? In these passages they are not forever being destroyed, or forever being punished. They are put out of existence. And if they are put out of existence, how can they be punished for ever?
Even your own comments sometimes seem closer to annihilationism than never ending punishment:
“All unrepentant sinners who appear before the GWTJ are a part of the old heaven and earth. When it passes away with all that was a part of it which includes all unrepentant sinners since the beginning of time until that GWTJ day, you tell me how the damned will be saved?”
So, if you say that all unrepentant sinners pass away with the old heaven and earth, then how can they be punished for ever?
Re Luke 16:26 -- once again we find these present tense continuous Greek verbs, telling us about an on going process, not a final result:
“… between us and you a great chasm has been fixed (perfect tense) so that those desiring to pass (present continuous) from here to you are not able (present continuous), nor are they able to pass (present continuous) from there to us.”
Again, it’s a description of an ongoing process, midway through, and not a description of God’s final settlement. In other words, as long as the process goes on, neither side will be able to cross over. But the text does not say that the process lasts for ever.
TamtheTyper
Scripture doesn't teach annihilationism anymore than it teaches UR.
Those who die in their sins go to a holding place called hell/hades where they suffer conscious torment in the flames of hell (Luke 16:23-24) until the GWTJ, which occurs after God destroys man, and the earth and heaven has fled away (Rev 20:9, 11) at the end of the 1000 yr reign of Christ (Rev 20:9,11). These unrepentant sinners are never allowed to leave hell and enter into heaven (Luke 16:26)
At the GWTJ all who where in hell stand before God, the books that contains all their works are opened, and the Lamb's Book of Life is also opened. Their works are judged (Rev 20:12). If their names did not appear in the Lamb's book of Life then they are casted into the Lake of Fire (Rev 20:14-15) where Satan, the beast and false prophet are and are tormented day and night forever (Rev 20:10). This is the second death. (Rev 20:14)
If a person (Christian or non Christian) dies in his/her sins their names are not written in the Lamb's Book of life.
Death does not mean cessation of existence.
When you are born you will eventually die a physical death. This is called the first death. You can no longer be with your family and friends, you can no longer enjoy the earth, you can no longer communicate with those on the earth, and etc. Those who remain on the earth are cut off from you as well. The first death is a cessation of your experiences with people on the earth but your life (soul-spirit) continues to exist either in heaven or hell.
If you are in hell you will be separated from God and His love. You will be in much pain, you cannot experience God's goodness, nor experience his mercy though you may cry out to Him for it.
The second death, separation from the love of God in every regard, is permanent because scriptures says it goes on forever. You will not cease to exist. Your spirit was created to exist forever.
Death, hell, Satan and his angels, sin of every sort, false teachings and heresies, and ect will never be resurrected or brought back to life when God creates the New Heavens and the New Earth.
star
Robin’s book “The Evangelical Universalist” is very good at acknowledging there are different ways of reading the Bible: 1) never ending punishment 2) annihilationism and 3) some kind of wider hope. And he acknowledges that they all have their difficult verses, and apparent contradictions. But it is the wider hope that is the most consistent reading, based on the overall message of the Bible. It’s the “never ending punishment” reading that has the most contradictions, both textual and theological.
BTW: who was the 19th century writer who described the traditional theology as having “certain administrative difficulties”? Does anyone have that quote?
And one last question. Star refers to the first death and the second death. Rev 20 refers to the Lake of Fire as the second death. There is no mention of the first death. But Star is right to define it as “cessation of your experiences with people on the earth” -- our death in this world.
But what about the first and second resurrection? While the first resurrection is mentioned, the second resurrection is only implied. The first resurrection is of those saints and martyrs who are blessed, “… over such, the second death has no power” (Rev 20:5-6). Having read about a first resurrection, we then watch out for the “second resurrection” but that exact phrase never appears! We expect to find it in the great white throne judgment in Rev 20:11-15, but “second resurrection” dosn’t appear there.
In fact, that whole passage seems to go out of its way to avoid anything like the description of a “second resurrection”. It repeatedly talks about “the dead”, and (as the hymn says) death of death and hell’s destruction. And then, right after that, the new heaven and earth come down, and God declares “Behold, I am making all things new!” (Rev 21:5).
But what happened to the “second resurrection” hinted at by the phrase “first resurrection” back in ch20:5+6? I think it was Vern Eller referenced by Robin, that raised this question. It fascinates me, and I wonder if any other writers have discussed this.
The passages in the OT and NT regarding the fate of the damned in eternity is consistent with one another; that is, the wicked will be for ever separated from the love of God. The wicked have no hope beyond the grave as UR claims and they will not cease to exist as the annihilationists claim.
star2
http://blogs.christianpost.com/ambassador-of-reconciliation/the-three-witnesses-25437/