tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2713231510890712652.post4500849692746052260..comments2024-03-02T08:27:42.344+00:00Comments on Theological Scribbles: Should we stone Daniel as a false prophet? A brief theological thought on a problem in Daniel 11Robin Parryhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08856329564156757485noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2713231510890712652.post-39844924132126435242011-10-24T16:42:18.052+01:002011-10-24T16:42:18.052+01:00YAHWEH says:"A prophet who presumes to speak ...YAHWEH says:"A prophet who presumes to speak in My Name anything I have not commanded, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, is to be put to death. You may say to yourselves, “How can we know when a message has not been spoken by YAHWEH?” If what a prophet proclaims in the Name of YAHWEH does not take place or come true, that is a message YAHWEH has not spoken; that prophet has spoken presumptuously, so do not be alarmed. Therefore, if you do not put this false prophet to death, I will blot your name out of My Book and will kill you; and your wife will be a widow and your children will be orphans." says YAHWEH your God.bobbymontsion2@gmail.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2713231510890712652.post-19586241312104907682009-07-10T17:09:23.418+01:002009-07-10T17:09:23.418+01:00Many (if not most) prophecies in Scripture have mu...Many (if not most) prophecies in Scripture have multiple time horizons in view. There is a short-term application which can be clearly recognized (usually in a more directly literal way) and a longer term application which completes the prophecy in a fuller sense---for example, the Isaiah 7 prophecy about "Immanuel"; has an immediate context for Ahaz but a deeper culmination in Christ. So this Daniel passage could have an Antiochene time horizon in mind for most of the text but also a future fulfillment (relative to Antiochus) in another person or institution.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11379430502100031373noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2713231510890712652.post-40385050542946282062009-06-23T08:00:30.943+01:002009-06-23T08:00:30.943+01:00David
Yes - I forgotten the Ezekiel problem (ther...David<br /><br />Yes - I forgotten the Ezekiel problem (there are a range of problems like this in the prophets and my brain blurrs them all together). That is a very clear example. <br /><br />Thomas's article is very helpful (I cannot remember what he argued but I read it a couple of times and enjoyed it).<br /><br />Thx for the reminder of the issue in Ezekiel.Robin Parryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08856329564156757485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2713231510890712652.post-23124914857487129732009-06-22T20:40:01.275+01:002009-06-22T20:40:01.275+01:00FWIW, my "favourite" case like this, bec...FWIW, my "favourite" case like this, because it is so clear cut, is the seige of Tyre in Ezekiel. Ezekiel says Tyre will fall to Nebuchadnezzar (Ezekiel 26) ... only ... it doesn't. What's more, this is recognized within the book -- in the book's latest-dated oracle, Ezek. 29:17-20.<br /><br />A lot of ink has been spilled over that one. Thomas Renz does a nice job on it: “Proclaiming the Future: History And Theology in Prophecies Against Tyre,” Tyndale<br />Bulletin 51.1 (2000): 17-58 [<a href="http://www.biblicalstudies.org.uk/pdf/tb/tyre_renz.pdf" rel="nofollow">PDF</a>].<br /><br />And I think, from Robin's account, that there might be some resonance with Wolterstorff's "solution", too.David Reimerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17886492671751634816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2713231510890712652.post-30424701367022159112009-06-21T19:30:51.280+01:002009-06-21T19:30:51.280+01:00James
That is an excellent point and highlights t...James<br /><br />That is an excellent point and highlights the gap in what I wrote. Actually Wolterstorff does talk about God authorizing prophets to speak in his name as spokes people. Like an ambassador authorized to speak on behalf of a government. God stands behind the prophet speaking in the first place and he then appropriates their words as his own speech act.<br /><br />I think that God's role in initiating the texts may not be identical in each case. A prophet is clearly authorized to speak for God and does so. A psalmist is not in quite the same position but their speech can still be adopted by God.<br /><br />So NW does see God as involved in the composition of the texts though perhaps in many and various ways. <br /><br />But God's involvement is not quite as close on NW's model as it is on conventional models.<br /><br />RobinRobin Parryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08856329564156757485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2713231510890712652.post-19661752148285397002009-06-21T19:25:38.783+01:002009-06-21T19:25:38.783+01:00eclectic
The problem is that in this case Antioch...eclectic<br /><br />The problem is that in this case Antiochus did not repent and he did still die - he just died differently from the way that Daniel 'predicts'.Robin Parryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08856329564156757485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2713231510890712652.post-65184159393265817332009-06-20T17:22:40.499+01:002009-06-20T17:22:40.499+01:00So Wolterstorff is saying that a human author wrot...So Wolterstorff is saying that a human author wrote Daniel's predictions, and God rubber-stamps them with his approval in some sense, but not all of them, only their main point? Does Wolterstorff believe that God had anything to do with the composition of the biblical writings?James Patehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14247799389009268470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2713231510890712652.post-26819987610268934372009-06-19T19:29:30.151+01:002009-06-19T19:29:30.151+01:00I think I would take a bit of Jonah/Ninevah approa...I think I would take a bit of Jonah/Ninevah approach to it. Jonah prophesied that God was going to destroy Ninevah. People repented, it didn't happen. While I would be hesitant to call myself an open theist (probably because I don't have a full understanding of what the term entails), I do not have a problem with history changing because of human initiated events.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com